It’s very clear that the US Administration is working directly for the Kremlin, which is setting out not just the terms of this unconscionable war, but also of (for example) who is chosen as Secretary of State. As well as overtaking Ukraine, it’s clear Putin is doing everything he can to destroy the relationship between the US and the rest of us, and indeed the US itself. And his US puppets are too stupid and selfish to see how they are being played: that leaks will throw them under a bus.
It’s now critical that, as strokebomb says, the real allies refuse to lift any sanctions at all - and that those of us living under those governments indeed make it clear we want the sanctions strengthened…
The US administration is not just illiterate on the future reality BUT the deplorables were feted because they were/are complicit with the entire New World Order ideal for the US to take over North America, putin Europe and Xi - Asia…if trump and this administration is not stopped …..it is DONE.
I'm not sure there is any deal to reject. Ukraine accepted deal 1. Russia accepted deal 2.
The question is there any point to further negotiations? Since the U.S. is lifting sanctions before peace has been achieved, the U.S. is now part of the war effort against Ukraine.
Unfortunately the useful charade is over and the U.S. is going to cut intelligence sharing.
I'll allow a professional answer this. Kimberly Donovan from the Atlantic Council writes, "To lift sanctions on Russia, the US must not leave its G7 partners out in the cold."
"There is a critical distinction between the US and Russian versions of the “Outcomes of the US and Russia Experts Groups on the Black Sea.” Notably, the Russian version outlines that Moscow’s adherence to the terms is contingent on lifting sanctions on certain financial institutions, re-connecting those institutions to the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) messaging service and opening correspondent accounts, and removing restrictions on trade finance, among other requirements. These contingencies are not included in the statement released by the White House. "
"Clearly, lifting sanctions was discussed in the meetings in Riyadh. However, lifting sanctions on Russian financial institutions and reconnecting Russian banks to SWIFT is not that easy and will require the agreement of foreign partners. The European Union (EU), the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, and others in the Group of Seven (G7) sanctioning coalition maintain sanctions on Russian banks. This includes Rosselkhozbank (Russian Agricultural Bank), which is one of the banks Russia demands sanctions be removed from as part of the agreement. If the United States unilaterally lifts sanctions on Russian financial institutions, then it will create massive compliance challenges for the global financial system and US banks that operate around the world. Further, SWIFT disconnected a select number of Russian banks because they were designated by the EU. SWIFT is headquartered in Belgium, within the EU’s jurisdiction, and it has to follow EU law and sanctions compliance measures."
"If the terms that were agreed to are dependent on the lifting of sanctions, the United States needs to coordinate with its G7 coalition partners and seek their agreement on the collective way forward."
To everyone -- not just Ukrainians paying the price in blood and Europeans slowly waking up -- For the sake of truth, integrity and freedom, please don't give an inch to the lying fascist scum here in the US. Trump has screwed everyone who's trusted him, and he sees backstabbing as a win for him. His supporters are every bit as evil as he is.
As mentioned in other comments here, the Trumpists' goal is to divvy up the world with Putin, Xi and lesser dictators. Give an inch and you're next.
I was listening to "Silicon Curtain" livestream breakdown the negotiation initial announcement.. Not sure how accurate my memory is, but one Russia expert said the U.S. met with Ukraine for 2 or 3 hours and talked to Russia for 12 hours, The guy said he has monitored negotiations with Russia for 35 years and could tell by the body language of the Russian delegation that they had triumphed. This was before readout analysed.
I was gobsmacked when I heard later that sanctions might be lifted as part of the otherwise minor deal. Any justifiable end of sanctions would happen after some time period following a full peace deal. I didn't believe that even Trumpers would be so nakedly pro-Russia. The reporting must be wrong.
OK, the big question is how will the media report this travesty. I'm not sure even Ian Bremmer will spin this as a step towards peace. He leans towards his long held belief that Russia can't be beat, but he is honest. Ukraine has to break with the U.S. on this. Will the media blame Ukraine for defying a step towards peace?
Silly me, I'm going to predict that the audaciousness of the treachery will force analysts to say the U.S. and Russia have betrayed Ukraine.
Trump would rather play golf and act the celebrity ruler, while enriching himself freely from every transaction. As the old Mafia saying goes, "the boss has to get a taste from everything that happens." Trump uses the unqualified lackeys he has placed in powerful positions to do the dirty work, but also to take the fall when things go wrong. This arrangement provides Trump with a patsy to lay the blame on, but also gives them his reassurances of a presidential pardon, in the event of any legal culpability
Trump is fully in bed with Putin and has a fawning admiration for both the Russian ruler and the methods used to control dissent in that country. He has bent over backward to ensure a favourable result for Russia in the peace negotiations with Ukraine. His current cease fire proposal allows the U.S. to resume trade with Russia and lift sanctions. it is a betrayal of Ukraine pure and simple.
Seems to me in any video I’ve seen with h Trump in any room is he’s barely functional. He seems to be totally disengaged from the room. He sits back and sort of stares at whatever direction the sound is coming from. Several people in his family, including his father died from dementia. Couldn’t happen fast enough to save our country.
Sorry for your trouble Ukr! With friends like these......scum.
The share out of the world is starting as per 2025 plan Europe is Russia's. US the Americas and Asian Arabs including Isreal. Rest of Asia is China's ( including Aus) with a difficult chat with India. Africa up for grabs with Russian in the lead. Only Europe can fight this with 3rd World help. Waken up NOW.
Yep, the Risk board is set. One curious change to the layout: Trump only appears interested in owning the territory from his prisoners colony in El Salvador up to Greenland. China seems to be doing much trade and development in South America.
I wish I had the authority to apologize on behalf of the sane half of the United States, because this is a travesty, a serious betrayal (one of many at this point), and an affront to the free world. I personally feel for Ukraine: you are fighting for the system that has made the US as powerful as it was, fighting for the freedom of Europe as well as Ukraine, fighting for right and justice and self-determination. We used to stand for these things, and it makes me weep to think how we have abandoned the cause of Ukraine. I am truly sorry. I have no right to ask this, but please keep fighting, keep the free world safe. Слава Україні! Героям слава!
In a bigger picture, Europe is about to confront the logical result of not smashing Russia facedown into the mud in 2014 after Crimea annexation.
Note how smart/rational Trump is (as much as I hate this): as Europe continued business as usual with Russia after the Crimea annexation (Nord Stream 2!), Trump has rational reasons to believe that he can annex Greenland and NOTHING will happen.
If Europe did not sanction/isolate Russia, a very weak and not-that-important country in economic terms, then a rational conclusion is that Europe will not sanction/isolate the US, or retort in any other way, after Trump annexes Greenland. Because the costs, to Europe, of punishing the US would be way higher than any retorts against Russia.
If after 2014 Europe was still able to pretend "Russia is a nice country", then it is much more likely that after Greenland Anschluss Europe will keep pretending "the US is nice". And continue to do business with the US as if nothing bad happened.
Now, there are some islands in the Atlantic which fly Portuguese, Spanish or British flags. "It cannot happen"? Are you sure? And there are Norwegian islands in the Arctic. And so on. The logic is cruel.
I would be more granular with "the US is now her enemy". It is easy to bounce between the walls of "eternal love" and "unmitigated hate". Orwell already noted this ("1984") and here in Central Europe whoever lived long enough knows this all too well. By "granular" I do not mean "tepid policy". But we have to account for the fact that the US is INTERNALLY split about 50/50.
It seems clear enough this administration hates Europe… the smug elites who look down their noses at these hokey hillbillies. They are all so thin skinned and narcissistic. Clearly whatever Putin has on Trump has turned US policy a full 180. There is a complete disregard for democratic principles playing out in real time. I can think of no situation where Trump would deploy the US military to support the EU, other than one that is clearly in US/Trumps financial interests (and the EU had to foot the bill for). Article 6 might as well be written on toilet paper for all it’s worth now. Even a return to “normal”, a complete rejection of MAGA and commitments to supporting a mercantile, free trade, rules based democratic world order, will not reverse the harm this administration has done to NATO and to the rest of the US’s supposed allies. The AUKUS agreement is another example - who believes Australia will get US subs at this point in time? The US cannot be trusted, the sooner we all accept that the better.
Yes, the hitherto bedrock assumption that USA is the ultimate backstop for democracy, justice and all those Western aspirations, is gone and will never come back. Perhaps an analogy was ditching the gold standard in finance. The international financial system survived that, at the cost of a vastly increased complexity. So we all will likely survive abandoning "the US values standard". But it was nice while it lasted.
It is, but policymaking is not, and it's a lot easier to trash anything than it is to rebuild it.
The fact that the country may be 50/50 is reason enough to realize that even if the grownups return in 2028, remaking alliances will be a subject o internal US struggle.
Well, technically it exists, but do you think the US would respond to an Article 5 request is any of the Baltics or Poland was attacked by Russia?
My personal belief is that the chances would be near zero. But my personal belief doesn't matter. What matters is whether Russia believes the US would respond, and on the current form, they don't have to guess, they'd just tell Agent Krasnov what to do.
It's just about time that Europe stands tall for Ukraine to protect the latter's interest in the face of such blatant betrayal by a traitous ally in the US.
Agree 110% with your assessment. All the cookies from this “deal” go to Russia and Ukraine gets less than nothing; less than what it has today in fact, because it takes away the ability to use sea drones to take out the Kerch bridge and continue to degrade Russian military and port assets in and around the Black Sea.
From a strategy perspective, I hope that Ukraine and the EU are talking closely about how to respond to this. A sensible strategy might be to make EU “the bad guy”: Ukraine is committed but alas, Brussels refuses to turn on SWIFT access… Of course, this would require a certain degree of testicular fortitude from the EU, since I am sure Trump will instantly come along with all his usual threats, tariffs, NATO exit, you name it. Might be best if the resistance came not even from the EU government, but from SWIFT itself (with tacit assurances from said government, of course). Even Trump can’t afford to sanction SWIFT (to his absolute chagrin, I am sure).
It is truly embarrassing to have Donald Trump elected as president. His agenda is not that of the majority of Americans. I apologize for your having to suffer his quest for a Nobel because Obama has one. But as this week exhibited, he cares not for our Armed Forces either—only for himself
All sane Americans must go if at all possible go to DC on 5 April and stay til the beast is caged and removed . No more kawtowing as Schumer did. There is nothing much left to lose and world to gain Please act noe. Why did over 40% of US electorate not vote and so let 30% of the electorate elect this evil stupid lunatic. If you in disUSA really care march on 5th April and do not leave til the job is done and the beast and his dogs of war gone.
It’s very clear that the US Administration is working directly for the Kremlin, which is setting out not just the terms of this unconscionable war, but also of (for example) who is chosen as Secretary of State. As well as overtaking Ukraine, it’s clear Putin is doing everything he can to destroy the relationship between the US and the rest of us, and indeed the US itself. And his US puppets are too stupid and selfish to see how they are being played: that leaks will throw them under a bus.
It’s now critical that, as strokebomb says, the real allies refuse to lift any sanctions at all - and that those of us living under those governments indeed make it clear we want the sanctions strengthened…
The US administration is not just illiterate on the future reality BUT the deplorables were feted because they were/are complicit with the entire New World Order ideal for the US to take over North America, putin Europe and Xi - Asia…if trump and this administration is not stopped …..it is DONE.
You’re right and it’s an appalling betrayal. I hope Europe stands firm with Ukraine and rejects this deal.
I'm not sure there is any deal to reject. Ukraine accepted deal 1. Russia accepted deal 2.
The question is there any point to further negotiations? Since the U.S. is lifting sanctions before peace has been achieved, the U.S. is now part of the war effort against Ukraine.
Unfortunately the useful charade is over and the U.S. is going to cut intelligence sharing.
"the U.S. is now part of the war effort against Ukraine"
since 21 Jan. of this year.
Treacherous 'deal'. I hope Ukraine and her real allies reject it.
Only the EU can reconnect Russia to SWIFT. This is not a card the US holds.
Please say more
I'll allow a professional answer this. Kimberly Donovan from the Atlantic Council writes, "To lift sanctions on Russia, the US must not leave its G7 partners out in the cold."
"There is a critical distinction between the US and Russian versions of the “Outcomes of the US and Russia Experts Groups on the Black Sea.” Notably, the Russian version outlines that Moscow’s adherence to the terms is contingent on lifting sanctions on certain financial institutions, re-connecting those institutions to the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) messaging service and opening correspondent accounts, and removing restrictions on trade finance, among other requirements. These contingencies are not included in the statement released by the White House. "
"Clearly, lifting sanctions was discussed in the meetings in Riyadh. However, lifting sanctions on Russian financial institutions and reconnecting Russian banks to SWIFT is not that easy and will require the agreement of foreign partners. The European Union (EU), the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, and others in the Group of Seven (G7) sanctioning coalition maintain sanctions on Russian banks. This includes Rosselkhozbank (Russian Agricultural Bank), which is one of the banks Russia demands sanctions be removed from as part of the agreement. If the United States unilaterally lifts sanctions on Russian financial institutions, then it will create massive compliance challenges for the global financial system and US banks that operate around the world. Further, SWIFT disconnected a select number of Russian banks because they were designated by the EU. SWIFT is headquartered in Belgium, within the EU’s jurisdiction, and it has to follow EU law and sanctions compliance measures."
"If the terms that were agreed to are dependent on the lifting of sanctions, the United States needs to coordinate with its G7 coalition partners and seek their agreement on the collective way forward."
Hope this helps.
It does, and it gives me some hope. I appreciate it. Thanks very much.
To everyone -- not just Ukrainians paying the price in blood and Europeans slowly waking up -- For the sake of truth, integrity and freedom, please don't give an inch to the lying fascist scum here in the US. Trump has screwed everyone who's trusted him, and he sees backstabbing as a win for him. His supporters are every bit as evil as he is.
As mentioned in other comments here, the Trumpists' goal is to divvy up the world with Putin, Xi and lesser dictators. Give an inch and you're next.
I was listening to "Silicon Curtain" livestream breakdown the negotiation initial announcement.. Not sure how accurate my memory is, but one Russia expert said the U.S. met with Ukraine for 2 or 3 hours and talked to Russia for 12 hours, The guy said he has monitored negotiations with Russia for 35 years and could tell by the body language of the Russian delegation that they had triumphed. This was before readout analysed.
I was gobsmacked when I heard later that sanctions might be lifted as part of the otherwise minor deal. Any justifiable end of sanctions would happen after some time period following a full peace deal. I didn't believe that even Trumpers would be so nakedly pro-Russia. The reporting must be wrong.
OK, the big question is how will the media report this travesty. I'm not sure even Ian Bremmer will spin this as a step towards peace. He leans towards his long held belief that Russia can't be beat, but he is honest. Ukraine has to break with the U.S. on this. Will the media blame Ukraine for defying a step towards peace?
Silly me, I'm going to predict that the audaciousness of the treachery will force analysts to say the U.S. and Russia have betrayed Ukraine.
Why are Americans so spineless as their country spirals down to toilet and noone does anything effective to stop it?
What chances a military coup?
Seems only hope left.
Certainly the institutions and businesses- all of them - have retreated to self preservation.
Whether the public will push back is still unknown. It does take time for the casually engaged to figure out great damage has happened.
What planet are Americans on?
john king
Trump would rather play golf and act the celebrity ruler, while enriching himself freely from every transaction. As the old Mafia saying goes, "the boss has to get a taste from everything that happens." Trump uses the unqualified lackeys he has placed in powerful positions to do the dirty work, but also to take the fall when things go wrong. This arrangement provides Trump with a patsy to lay the blame on, but also gives them his reassurances of a presidential pardon, in the event of any legal culpability
Trump is fully in bed with Putin and has a fawning admiration for both the Russian ruler and the methods used to control dissent in that country. He has bent over backward to ensure a favourable result for Russia in the peace negotiations with Ukraine. His current cease fire proposal allows the U.S. to resume trade with Russia and lift sanctions. it is a betrayal of Ukraine pure and simple.
(check my free substack)
Seems to me in any video I’ve seen with h Trump in any room is he’s barely functional. He seems to be totally disengaged from the room. He sits back and sort of stares at whatever direction the sound is coming from. Several people in his family, including his father died from dementia. Couldn’t happen fast enough to save our country.
Sorry for your trouble Ukr! With friends like these......scum.
The share out of the world is starting as per 2025 plan Europe is Russia's. US the Americas and Asian Arabs including Isreal. Rest of Asia is China's ( including Aus) with a difficult chat with India. Africa up for grabs with Russian in the lead. Only Europe can fight this with 3rd World help. Waken up NOW.
Yep, the Risk board is set. One curious change to the layout: Trump only appears interested in owning the territory from his prisoners colony in El Salvador up to Greenland. China seems to be doing much trade and development in South America.
I wish I had the authority to apologize on behalf of the sane half of the United States, because this is a travesty, a serious betrayal (one of many at this point), and an affront to the free world. I personally feel for Ukraine: you are fighting for the system that has made the US as powerful as it was, fighting for the freedom of Europe as well as Ukraine, fighting for right and justice and self-determination. We used to stand for these things, and it makes me weep to think how we have abandoned the cause of Ukraine. I am truly sorry. I have no right to ask this, but please keep fighting, keep the free world safe. Слава Україні! Героям слава!
In a bigger picture, Europe is about to confront the logical result of not smashing Russia facedown into the mud in 2014 after Crimea annexation.
Note how smart/rational Trump is (as much as I hate this): as Europe continued business as usual with Russia after the Crimea annexation (Nord Stream 2!), Trump has rational reasons to believe that he can annex Greenland and NOTHING will happen.
If Europe did not sanction/isolate Russia, a very weak and not-that-important country in economic terms, then a rational conclusion is that Europe will not sanction/isolate the US, or retort in any other way, after Trump annexes Greenland. Because the costs, to Europe, of punishing the US would be way higher than any retorts against Russia.
If after 2014 Europe was still able to pretend "Russia is a nice country", then it is much more likely that after Greenland Anschluss Europe will keep pretending "the US is nice". And continue to do business with the US as if nothing bad happened.
Now, there are some islands in the Atlantic which fly Portuguese, Spanish or British flags. "It cannot happen"? Are you sure? And there are Norwegian islands in the Arctic. And so on. The logic is cruel.
Spot on. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but Europe needs to accept the US is now her enemy. NATO is history.
I would be more granular with "the US is now her enemy". It is easy to bounce between the walls of "eternal love" and "unmitigated hate". Orwell already noted this ("1984") and here in Central Europe whoever lived long enough knows this all too well. By "granular" I do not mean "tepid policy". But we have to account for the fact that the US is INTERNALLY split about 50/50.
It seems clear enough this administration hates Europe… the smug elites who look down their noses at these hokey hillbillies. They are all so thin skinned and narcissistic. Clearly whatever Putin has on Trump has turned US policy a full 180. There is a complete disregard for democratic principles playing out in real time. I can think of no situation where Trump would deploy the US military to support the EU, other than one that is clearly in US/Trumps financial interests (and the EU had to foot the bill for). Article 6 might as well be written on toilet paper for all it’s worth now. Even a return to “normal”, a complete rejection of MAGA and commitments to supporting a mercantile, free trade, rules based democratic world order, will not reverse the harm this administration has done to NATO and to the rest of the US’s supposed allies. The AUKUS agreement is another example - who believes Australia will get US subs at this point in time? The US cannot be trusted, the sooner we all accept that the better.
Yes, the hitherto bedrock assumption that USA is the ultimate backstop for democracy, justice and all those Western aspirations, is gone and will never come back. Perhaps an analogy was ditching the gold standard in finance. The international financial system survived that, at the cost of a vastly increased complexity. So we all will likely survive abandoning "the US values standard". But it was nice while it lasted.
It is, but policymaking is not, and it's a lot easier to trash anything than it is to rebuild it.
The fact that the country may be 50/50 is reason enough to realize that even if the grownups return in 2028, remaking alliances will be a subject o internal US struggle.
Let's mot get ahead of our skis. NATO is not history.
Well, technically it exists, but do you think the US would respond to an Article 5 request is any of the Baltics or Poland was attacked by Russia?
My personal belief is that the chances would be near zero. But my personal belief doesn't matter. What matters is whether Russia believes the US would respond, and on the current form, they don't have to guess, they'd just tell Agent Krasnov what to do.
So yes, NATO is over
I’m so sorry for your people and your country. I’m heartbroken 💔
Most of us are too and finally a few of the Trump MAGAts are waking up as well. Let’s hope it’s not too late.
You’re getting knifed in the back by our shitty Dark MAGA administration. I’m so sorry. My family is from Latvia. Slava Ukraini. ❤️
I have one more question: now that the U.S. is economically aiding the Russian war effort how does NATO continue with the U.S. at the helm?
Forget NATO Numbskull Asshole Trump Owned.
It's just about time that Europe stands tall for Ukraine to protect the latter's interest in the face of such blatant betrayal by a traitous ally in the US.
Agree 110% with your assessment. All the cookies from this “deal” go to Russia and Ukraine gets less than nothing; less than what it has today in fact, because it takes away the ability to use sea drones to take out the Kerch bridge and continue to degrade Russian military and port assets in and around the Black Sea.
From a strategy perspective, I hope that Ukraine and the EU are talking closely about how to respond to this. A sensible strategy might be to make EU “the bad guy”: Ukraine is committed but alas, Brussels refuses to turn on SWIFT access… Of course, this would require a certain degree of testicular fortitude from the EU, since I am sure Trump will instantly come along with all his usual threats, tariffs, NATO exit, you name it. Might be best if the resistance came not even from the EU government, but from SWIFT itself (with tacit assurances from said government, of course). Even Trump can’t afford to sanction SWIFT (to his absolute chagrin, I am sure).
It is truly embarrassing to have Donald Trump elected as president. His agenda is not that of the majority of Americans. I apologize for your having to suffer his quest for a Nobel because Obama has one. But as this week exhibited, he cares not for our Armed Forces either—only for himself
All sane Americans must go if at all possible go to DC on 5 April and stay til the beast is caged and removed . No more kawtowing as Schumer did. There is nothing much left to lose and world to gain Please act noe. Why did over 40% of US electorate not vote and so let 30% of the electorate elect this evil stupid lunatic. If you in disUSA really care march on 5th April and do not leave til the job is done and the beast and his dogs of war gone.